Clean the Kitchen

in #hive-1787083 years ago

It has been a while, but the next thing on the list of renovations is likely to come close to being the largest single expense, though there have been some "pretty big" single expenses already. Changing the window, the heating system, building an upstairs bathroom... The bathroom was the largest, by far. but, now we are turning our attention to the kitchen-. At least, we are turning some "wish" attention that way.

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We are very likely to go with an IKEA kitchen again, as while yes it is cheaper, the one we installed in our previous apartment held up incredibly well for the six years we were there. However, since that time, "cheap" has changed at IKEA too and rather than being less than half the price, it is now around a third cheaper perhaps.

The current kitchen while it "works", is not well appointed and as the layout isn't practical. Not only that, there is almost no convenient bench space, making food prep difficult - nor is there enough storage space, despite the size.

This kitchen is a bit of a challenge though, as while it is large, there are some issues that we might have to contend with if it is impossible or too expensive to change them. The first major one is the height of the window, as it is only 800 mm from the ground, whilst a standard kitchen benchtop it 900. Raising the window is possible, but it is expensive due to the outside material of the house, but we will look into it with a new contractor we used last year, as he is decent and works a little cheaper, as well as quickly.

The second issue is where the pipes run for the sink and dishwasher. As normal, they are on the inside walls, as in old houses the generally played it safe and kept them from freezing. However, if we are able to move them, we can can shift the position of the sink and use the wall it is currently on to drastically improve storage space. For me, storage space is always important, as while I don't necessarily want to use it, I have always found it is better to have it than not, because I do not like clutter on benchtops.

IKEA has some tools for planning and designing some rooms and for some of their storage systems, and they are easy to use and fast to be able to create a realistic sense of what a space might become. I haven't chosen materials or machines of any kind here, but kept it simple so that I can play around with positioning.

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At this point, I think this is the "ideal" set up, but it would be dependent on the window being repositioned upward and the pipes being moved so that the sink and dishwasher can be on the other side of the room. The other thing that it might not need is the rangehood, as I am hoping to get one of those vacuum stovetops instead. It cleans up the space a lot if not requiring the exhaust point.

This gives a lot of space to us for storage of dry food and the chance for a side-by-side fridge and freezer. Food storage seems to be weighing more on my mind lately for some reason. Also, it gives the possibility for a raised oven and microwave tower, rather than having the oven at floor level. This is what we had in our last place and it was really handy and felt far more comfortable cooking, plus looked neat and clean.

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Then... if we are unable to move the window and the pipes, then we have to make some additional concessions. First of which would mean that in order to get more bench space, we would have to split the level of the benchtop to travel beneath the window, so it would be at a height of about 750 mm, 150 below the normal height. I don't like this idea and while it looks "okay" to my wife (who just wants a new kitchen) it is like built-in clutter to my eyes.

However, beggars can't be choosers.

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The other problem with this design is that it can only afford the space for a fridge-freezer, which while we have that now, I am trying to get into a position where I get the sense of more space, even in the fridge. At the moment, I can only get that by taking food out.

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The software adds up the price and creates a parts list, which is super convenient, but even though I haven't chosen the machines or the surfaces yet, just the basics pushes both of these over 13,000€ ($14,000 US) for just the materials. I suspect based on what we have paid earlier, plus the price hike on top, the work to fix the surfaces, structure, electrical and plumbing is likely to be close to another 10K on top, and if we were to move the window, that would be around another 3-4K.

As said... wishing a little here.

However, what I am trying to do is spend more time planning some more practical things again, as I feel that all I have been doing is working in various ways, with little point as to why. Perhaps having some goals in mind, will bring some purpose as to why I keep on doing what I do - even if I never end up acting on them. However, since we have done the rest of the house, at some point, we will have to get onto the kitchen, just to get that sense of alignment.

I have heard that planning a holiday can just as relaxing as actually going on holiday, so maybe planning a kitchen will be almost as good as having a new one. I don't buy that - but unless I have some more scratch to throw into the house - I can't buy a kitchen either. Either way, while I do enjoy the process of planning renovations, I am not even sure if I am physically capable to do much of the work these days, which means - even more expense on top to cover what I used to be able to do myself.

Do you enjoy planning for what might never happen too?

Taraz
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simple but cozy design for kitchen.

Simple is what I am going for - and practical. They both need some work - but it is so easy with the tools to move things around :)

yes you have what you want my brother, but Im concerned with the ventilation, the place is small and a little bit narrow yet you only have one window, it's a little bit suffocated for me, you know the kitchen area is hot due to cooking and need space to breathe. In my opinion, why not add up another window. To make it more breathable and the natural ventilation/light comes into your kitchen you can save electricity bills if you do. But that's only my opinion. Have a nice day thank you for sharing.

The windows are small here (it is an old house) because in the winter it drops to around -25C. There is plenty of ventilation, but it isn't one of those "open up the window" kinds of things unless it is summer. Also, this room is about 5 meters long and 4 meters wide, so while it looks narrow in the picture, there is about 2.5 meters between of floor space at the narrowest.

I love IKEA design, amazing drawers. If something for example get damaged Ikea will give new pieces it's really?

There is a lot to like about IKEA kitchens, because while not unique, all of the parts have been tested and improved countless times over the years and, if anything gets damaged, it is easy to replace. Also, you can update an entire kitchen years later, just by changing the doors which is why getting the design right is so important :)

we installed in our previous apartment..

Was it your own apartment? What about the new one? If you are hirer, I wonder whether it is right to rebuild someone else's house.

I think you have much works to be done at home,, I don't like interior debris :)

Yes, it was our own. I wouldn't renovate a rental - that is crazy. :)

If I could design my own kitchen, I'd like it to be like this too. The color looks therapeutic. I think this also suits my personality.

Fun to plan these things - not fun to pay for :)

We have to redo our kitchen as well, same problem, it's big but astonishingly inefficient.

Still waiting on money to magically appear so we can redo it and the bathroom x_x

I often plan for what might never happen but I don't always enjoy it XD

same problem, it's big but astonishingly inefficient.

Sometimes, I wonder what people are thinking when they build like this. Kitchens have never been cheap, so why plan it so poorly?

I think we just have to imagine the money in our hands, and it magically appears or something, right?

I don't know if that's any better or worse than whining about not having money but resoundingly rejecting any potential solution because reasons.

Everything is on the spectrum of stupid :)

I am excited to see your kitchen when finished. Having a kitchen is also one of my dreams, as of now I am still using our dirty kitchen which was built outside our house (which is 6-7 steps from our dining table).

An outdoor kitchen is a luxury in some places - in Finland, it would be very, very cold!

Hopefully you can get what you are after one day :)

I hope so too! (^_^)

Love the neatness and simplicity in it! Looking forward to the next one ;)

Cheers - I feel like I need to get my hands dirty again - too much time at a keyboard. :)

Sometimes it is like that, in the end, it's worth it. Keep up the excellent work!

I also want to change my kitchen. I like some of IKEA's models very much, but I don't think their products are of high quality in the country where I live with incredibly high prices. I bought most of the items in my house from ikea and it got deformed very quickly.

Here, it is one of the cheapest options and, the quality is better than most I have found :) The kitchen cupboards aren't couches :)


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Wow, I love the kitchen but the cost is high for me because is enough for me to build a small house in my country

That planning tool looks like a great way to visualise your new kitchen. Here's to the funds appearing soon, and you can get started.

Annabelle 😊

The next crypto run up - I should make a promise I will get it done :)

Have a nice second half of the week :)

Thanks, @tarazkp! Ben and I are off to a car show at the Birmingham NEC tomorrow - should be lots of classic cars to see there (and drool at - from a distance, of course)

Annabelle 😊

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Ah good luck with IKEA on that stuff. I don’t know but we’ve had bad luck with their stuff in the past. Maybe it’s what gets shipped to America.. don’t know lol. I’m sure it’ll work out well though! The price is certainly attractive. A typical kitchen Reno in America will easily run you 50k or more.

We have lots of the same complaints with our space now, we are hoping when we move we get something decent lol. Two people can’t cook in the kitchen at the same time it’s really fun! We’ve never had a holiday where we hosted because it’s so small lol

I think my wife doesn’t like when I do the work for things because it gets mostly finished. In my defense, she’s always got something up her sleeve so I can’t find the time to finish things lol. Hopefully going to get some stuff finished in the coming two or three weekends.

I wouldn't buy much from IKEA normally, but their kitchen and bathroom cabinets are awesome, especially for the price. Couches and what not are mediocre.

We’ve never had a holiday where we hosted because it’s so small lol

That reminds me of Christmas - our first hosting gig - it was a challenge - bench space for prep and food for 18 people!

Have fun finishing up - maybe that is the way to do it though - get things to 90% so in a short period of time you can hammer the rest out and feel like you really accomplished a lot :D

Lol I don't know if my wife feels the same! She finished things 100%. Trouble is she gets overwhelmed lol she will set out to clean a closet then get frustrated it's a lot to do then give up. I'll clean one section and feel like a champ hahaha

I'll clean one section and feel like a champ hahaha

How do you eat an elephant?
A bite at a time.

Around here, there would be a lot of dead elephants, each with a bite or two taken out of them :D

LOL I like that I’ve never heard that before I think it fits nicely!

We’ve been moving a lot quicker on the house though, we have plane tickets to go visit down south finally to go look at houses and neighborhoods so it’s starting to get real. Now we are getting into overdrive for cleaning and fixing things finally. Will be nice to get everything packed up and squared away lol

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I have heard that planning a holiday can just as relaxing as actually going on holiday,

I read somewhere that (pre-pandemic) going on holiday is in the top 5 of most stressful things to do?
Planning I don't know about but I've been looking at a kitchen upgrade too until I saw the prices?

Definitely on the back burner for now. It's gone crazy out there since the prices of lumber shot up last year.

Holidays are stressful - unless you travel like me - without caring where or what gets done - other than something new :)

Lumber costs are crazy. I heard it is partly to do with fires in Canada a couple years ago - but not sure if that is true. Here, a friend estimated that if he had built his house now (he built through 2020), it would have cost him another 100K, just on wood. That is about 30% of the price!

I can't believe the lumber costs! Everybody and their brother did remodel jobs when they were on lockdown and ALL OF IT went up. The fires had a modest effect but the thoughts of current shortage made it crazy.

My (new) brother saw a huge increase in business (landscape supplies) that didn't really show up in his pocket as he sold the main business effective Jan 1, 2020. His wife continued as CEO until July 1 that year per the sales agreement so had a really good grip on the change.

And don't weep for Larry. He and his son in law kept their trucking business and they SUPPLY the landscape supply business. They are doing just fine...

If I'm travelling abroad alone I pack super light. One small pull along bag, laptop and camera. In fact I'm in London just now and just took three teeshirt's smartphone and drone...and pants of course lol.
When I travel with family the kitchen sink comes too lol. (Not my packing)

The cost of lumber doubled over here last year due in part to 'supply chain issues'.

I just toured the north of England last month and saw 10's of 1,000's of trees blown down due to the winter storms.

Now in the rational world of economic theory that should mean that the price of lumber should plummet. It hasn't...yet?

Something else is going on but I can't find my conspiracy hat? 😂😂👍

I am yet to travel with my daughter in tow, but looking forward to it one day :)

The cost of lumber is weird in Finland too - because (if anyone has flown over it) all there is are trees and lakes and you can throw a stone and hit a papermill or a lumber yard. It is nonsensical... price gouging on the hype :)

It is nonsensical... price gouging on the hype :)

You nailed it. Firms will take any opportunity to maximize profits. That's their job.
If they can find a good excuse to raise prices they will.

They price to what the market will stand and bugger all to do with competition.

If the public have a drip feed of catastrophic news firms gouge away with impunity until people catch on to what is happening. By which time the firms have made super profits.

Look at the banks earnings from last year when everything was locked down. Record profits? Suspicious much? 🤯😂👍

I don't know that I so much enjoy planning for things that are never going to happen, but I damn sure certain do it frequently. Right now, it's a trailer hitch and trailer for my motorcycle. Because I love rough camping but am too old for the real rough part. Like crawling in and out of a tent, or sleeping on the ground (or right next to it) and that sort of stuff. The trailer would give me space to get some amenities that would really add to the joy... ROI is that I'll have to use it until I'm at least 75 to pay the difference in Motel stays. At my age I can't even buy green bananas with confidence that I'll live long enough to use them...

So I've got it figured out what I need to do for my ceilings. It would be really nice to hide the holes there if nothing else. I'm a little stuck with what the minimum I can live with structurally like new lights in kitchen and bath. I have old eyes and can't see well in less than optimum light. But if I put in lights do I need to do some cabinet changing? I mean if I can see it clearly will I notice how awful the current crop is? But I'm pretty close to those decisions today. Sort of.

Idea about the window. What if you just replace the actual window part to put the bottom above your counter? No structural changes at all, and you could just build a nice flower box to take up the difference between where the window is now and where it would end up. Your wife (or maybe better yet, smallsteps) could grow artisan herbs (so much superior to everyday herbs) in it to flavor up the whole kitchen. Just a thought...

Because I love rough camping but am too old for the real rough part.

Glamping is a thing there?

At my age I can't even buy green bananas with confidence that I'll live long enough to use them...

:D

Good lighting is essential for me in the bathroom and kitchen - it makes them feel "cleaner" in some way I think.

What if you just replace the actual window part to put the bottom above your counter?

This is a possibility I have suggested (so a good idea ;D ) and I think once I talk to our tradie, he might be able to work out something to match the wall on the other side - or make it presentable. The right design for the window and it should be easy enough. My wife is not keen, but that is more because the windows are less than two years old at the moment, but I don't think we should build the kitchen around the cost of replacing one window.

The pipes are a problem perhaps though, but I am "almost" prepared to lift the floor and redo them if needs be. That is a cost though, especially with the current wood prices.

Plumbing is always problematic. Unless you have a neighbor like David...

The name of his business is "I am a plumber looking for work." He's a one man show and fast and accurate. The kind of guy everybody should know at least one of :)

We are just embarking on our own kitchen referb and it’s nice to read that other people are having to go through the same process as us.

The IKEA stuff we saw looked fine and initially was our first choice too but having spoken to a couple of designers and fitters they are all confident they can get units of at least the same quality for a similar price from businesses that sell direct to trade.

The advantages to that were we wouldn’t have to organise delivery and storage potentially well in advance of the work starting and if something goes wrong I.e. missing or damaged parts, they can simply pop down and pick up a new one rather than waiting days if not weeks for the problem to be sorted by IKEA or whoever.

At the same time I think the quality of IKEA’s stuff looked good and it all comes down to the design and fit itself as to how it looks and lasts.

As you say, it’s a big investment. We’d love to put in down lighting but that’ll mean a whole new ceiling. We’d love to put in a gas hob where now we have electric one but that’ll mean digging into the floor and then re-doing the whole laminate, etc etc

Negotiations continue…

Good luck with your project. Hope it turns out well

!BEER

they are all confident they can get units of at least the same quality for a similar price from businesses that sell direct to trade

Good luck - we have had a few prices on stuff here and it has been well over, once they add it up for real - however, that gap is closing fast at the moment.

missing or damaged parts, they can simply pop down and pick up a new one rather than waiting days if not weeks for the problem to be sorted by IKEA or whoever.

We have had the opposite problem in the past, where IKEA always has it, but other places don't store stock. However, IKEA has had supply issues over the last few years too, as some products have been heavily affected by corona conditions and I assume now, the Ukraine war.

We’d love to put in down lighting but that’ll mean a whole new ceiling.

We have put new ceilings all over the place now (almost), and it has been "okay", but it is an MDF ceiling, not solid wood. It is neat and we only lost 5 cm in height, as the LEDs don't require much space in the cavity.

Good luck with your projects too - they are fun, until the bills come!

Unless you're starting from scratch, kitchens can sometimes be challenging to design and construct, especially if they are renovation projects. Adjusting the countertop level to match the non-standard height of the existing window is a clever move. But again this will depend on the final technical assessment of the said space once the actual dismantling of building components starts. With the advantage of modularity (interchangeability of parts), Ikea is not bad when it comes to furniture options as they also offer planning services. Practicality is what matters, giving you more value for your precious investment.

What I have found good about IKEA for the kitchen and bathroom cabinets is, they seem to have gone through a lot of testing and redesign over the years, so things tend to work well and perform. Couches and stuff however, might not need to stand the test of time. On the cupboard frames, there is a 25 year warranty, which is decent - though I am not sure how often any frames fail. The other thing is, if well designed, 20 years down the road, a "new" kitchen can be accomplished by changing the doors.

Hopefully with this project, we will be able to make some structural changes to clean the design.